Wes separates writing online from deliberate audience growth. For years, publishing gave her a way to sharpen her thinking, clarify observations, and explore ideas even though the work attracted little attention.

Publishing and audience growth are different activities.
Writing clarifies and strengthens thought.
Low engagement does not make the practice embarrassing or worthless.
Craft may develop long before distribution catches up.

“for the first 10 years of writing online no one read my exactly”
Wes Kao · 06:00

“it was an amazing way to sharpen my own thinking to clarify my thoughts”
Wes Kao · 06:00

#writing#audience#learning#creator-economy

Hot Take· 3

Hot Take08:20

Strategy Cannot Rescue Weak Marketing Craft

The hosts describe a three-legged pattern of marketing failure: enthusiasm, confidence, and strategy can all be overvalued when fundamental craft is missing. Strategy determines how to deploy abilities, but it does not create those abilities.

Enthusiasm and confidence are insufficient substitutes for skill.
High-level strategy cannot compensate for weak execution.
Craft skills must be built before they can be deployed strategically.
Marketers often seek strategic authority too early in their development.

“if you don't have the core craft skills the best strategy in the world isn't going to save you”
Kip Bodnar · 08:30

“strategy isn't how you build skills strategy is how you utilize the skills once you've built them”
Kip Bodnar · 09:00

#marketing#craft#strategy#skills

Hot Take27:00

Leadership Is an “And,” Not an Escape From Craft

The conversation challenges the idea that promotion into management should replace domain craft. Strong leaders need to develop management as a distinct skill while retaining enough craft knowledge to model standards, diagnose work, and give specific feedback.

Management is a real skill and should not be dismissed.
Craft excellence does not excuse destructive behavior.
Leadership development should complement rather than replace domain expertise.
Craft knowledge enables specific feedback instead of generic frameworks.

“managing is a skill in itself though”
Wes Kao · 29:00

“it's an an learn leadership it's an an not an or and I think a lot of people treat it as an or”
Kieran Flanagan · 29:30

#leadership#management#craft#career-growth

Hot Take39:00

Anonymous Feedback Often Arrives After Trust Is Already Broken

Kieran argues that leaders frequently fail because their teams do not trust them enough to give direct feedback in real time. When concerns surface only through periodic anonymous reviews, accumulated problems may have already damaged the relationship beyond easy repair.

A leader's reaction determines whether employees keep offering feedback.
Real-time candor is more useful than delayed anonymous disclosure.
Leaders need not accept every suggestion, but should explain their response.
Trust can erode for months while surface politeness hides the problem.

“the number one reason I've seen leaders fail is because they don't have the trust with their team for their team to give them direct…”
Kieran Flanagan · 39:00

“by the time you get that the relationship in some sometimes their relationship is in irreparable with their team”
Kieran Flanagan · 40:00

#trust#360-feedback#leadership#team-health

Explainer· 1

Explainer30:30

Marketing Taste Starts With Noticing What Is Spiky

Leaders do not need to have personally operated every advertising format, but they must remain culturally aware enough to recognize unusually effective work. Noticing why a creative execution is interesting gives them useful material to explore with specialists on their team.

Direct execution experience is not required in every channel.
Leaders should study emerging formats and cultural norms.
Taste includes recognizing work that is unusually interesting or effective.
Curiosity about how strong work was made keeps leaders connected to craft.

“your ability to notice yes when something is spiky and interesting and there's something there there's something there that we should explore”
Wes Kao · 31:00

“that requires taste requ judgment reques plugged in exactly”
Wes Kao · 31:30

#taste#culture#advertising#marketing

Story· 1

Story15:00

How Working With Seth Godin Reset Wes Kao's Standards

Wes describes discovering that the startup pace she had considered fast was actually slow compared with Seth Godin's operating standard. The experience changed both the expectations she held for herself and what she believed teams could accomplish.

Standards are relative to the operating environments people have experienced.
Exposure to exceptional speed can reveal an unnecessarily limiting frame.
A demanding mentor can change future expectations, not just current output.
The transformation affected Wes's expectations of herself and others.

“drastically increasing my standards for myself and my expectations of other people”
Wes Kao · 15:30

“it was kind of like seeing in black and white and then seeing in Technicolor”
Wes Kao · 16:00

#seth-godin#standards#mentorship#leadership

Takeaway· 3

Takeaway02:00

Why Side Quests Create Better Career Proof Than Credentials

Wes Kao and the hosts argue that marketers do not need permission from an employer to demonstrate their abilities. Independent projects such as campaign teardowns, blogs, events, and experimental media create visible proof of curiosity, initiative, and craft.

Side projects reveal genuine enthusiasm for the craft.
Digital platforms let marketers build portfolios without gatekeepers.
Self-directed work can differentiate an otherwise conventional application.
The work itself matters even before it attracts a large audience.

“great crafts people do side quests”
Kieran Flanagan · 02:30

“it's so much easier to create proof points of your expertise online and there's really no one stopping you”
Wes Kao · 04:00

#careers#side-projects#marketing#portfolio

Takeaway23:30

Why Senior Leaders Must Stay Close to Primary Data

Wes argues that senior leaders should inspect original customer messages, work samples, and channel behavior rather than relying entirely on summaries. Their accumulated judgment may reveal signals that less experienced employees overlook, while direct exposure keeps strategy grounded.

Original evidence can contradict a direct report's interpretation.
Senior judgment becomes useful only when it encounters real data.
Hands-on exposure preserves understanding of channel culture and nuance.
Distance from the work weakens feedback and strategic decisions.

“it's so important as a leader to be close to primary data as close as possible”
Wes Kao · 23:30

“if you are someone who stays close to doing the work you automatically have a leg up”
Wes Kao · 26:00

#leadership#primary-data#judgment#marketing

Takeaway38:00

Celebrate Disagreement Before You Debate It

Wes recommends explicitly inviting direct reports to challenge strong opinions and positively reinforcing them when they do. Because the power dynamic makes disagreement riskier for the employee, leaders should acknowledge the courage and value of speaking up before contesting the substance.

Strong opinions should include a sincere invitation to challenge them.
Employees face more interpersonal risk when disagreeing upward.
Celebrate the act of sharing a point of view before debating details.
Constructive dissent can reveal information the leader missed.

“it's important to encourage your direct reports to question you as well and to speak up”
Wes Kao · 38:00

“it is scarier for them to say something to you than for you to say something to them due to that power Dynamic”
Wes Kao · 38:30

#psychological-safety#disagreement#feedback#management

Frameworks in this episode

High Standards, High Coaching

Positive Confrontation

Strategic Doer

Strategy, Not Self-Expression

TACS Feedback

Test and Polish

Insights & moments

⚡Myth Buster· 1

Writing Online Is Valuable Even When Nobody Reads It

◆Hot Take· 3